sweetaguacateasked: Hey Brontë! In reading Dorian Gray for trike the 3rd time and I just got to the part where Alan Campbell is being described. This is the first time I'm reading it and sherlocks character comes to mind. Idk if you have any thoughts on that or have explained if there's a connection there?
Oh, that’s a very interesting observation, there are very striking similarities! Unfortunately, though, Conan Doyle can’t have based Holmes on Alan Campbell, as A Study in Scarlet was written in 1887 and The Picture of Dorian Gray was written in 1890. WhetherWildewas influenced byConan Doylein the characterisation of one of his most explicitly gay characters, though, isn’t entirely out of the question.
“sherlock HATES moriarty because he’s a bad person and he kills people, he’s just so bad and sadic and sherlock despise him so much!!!! lol delusional sheriarty shippers who think sherlock admires and respects him lol”
johnlockers who refuse to accept what is canon are my fave thing
What kind of disrespectful, illogical response is that anyway? Wow, you added a gif onto a post, what a clever counterargument. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s true.
Okay like if you want to be pissed off that someone dragged your post (which takes a line of a doyle story soooo out of context that the gif should really suffice) in a humorous way, feel free. But now I’m concerned you actually think you’re correct about this being canon? I mean the words are written down but you’re taking the actual meaning and thematic purpose of the line out of context and then you’re saying it’ssomeone elsewho’s refusing to accept the text? I think using the canon story to prove something in an adaptation isn’t really sound analysis. BUT if you’d like to use the original text as a starting point….let’s…..do a counterargument….. The quote you are pointing out actually serves to further the fact that Sherlock Holmes hates James Moriarty and is basically willing to give his life to stop him. “My intellectual equal”. This doesn’t JUST set up Holmes’s death (meaning: we were evenly matched so I have to give my life and can’t simply outsmart him.) But also points out that Moriarty and Holmes are mirrors. In fact throughout this story Holmes makes several flattering remarks about Moriarty’s brilliance using language he often uses to praise his own brilliance. Note: he never says anything flattering about Moriarty beyond equating Moriarty’s brilliance with his own. He even says that Moriarty has “hereditary tendencies of the most diabolical kind.” Something we know Holmes isn’t fond of. (Again: refer to any of this man’s soliloquies on crime and evil etc.) (Mmmmm also YIKES @ the belief in hereditary evil but okay. Whatever Holmes.) So you may ask: what is the point of including these remarks about Moriarty’s brilliance at all, if in every other way he expresses dislike for him? Why does he repeatedly talk about how smart his adversary is? Moriarty is Holmes without the goodness. There has even been Holmes scholarship on the possibility of Moriarty representing the parts of Holmes that he hates and wants to destroy…you know, the classic hero destroyed by the darkness in himself narrative….except Holmes is resurrected and we find out that he actually manages to kill his evil twin. You don’t necessarily have to go that far into symbolics! But you’re missing the point of the story if you’re not getting that they are good and evil mirrors and that Holmes absolutely hates him and is horrified at the possibility of being him (see: his fondness for pondering “we’re all lucky i didn’t turn out a criminal” every few stories). Okay here is an excerpt from one of like 100 essays on how they’re good and evil: Just in case you didn’t get the point though, Holmes disguises himself as a priest so he and Watson can escape Moriarty. Just, like, driving the point home how much this story is about good and evil. Let’s look at some actual descriptions of Moriarty given by Holmes. Holmes, who has never been very careful actually has a concealed weapon on him, that’s how much he’s wary of Moriarty: Then we have to look at the language characters in fiction use to describe one another. Descriptive language is deliberately used to express how characters view each other. Anything Holmes says of Moriarty (except saying “he is exactly as smart as I am”) is negative, from his character to his appearance: Not super flattering description. Unfortunately, appearance and moral character/subjective feeling were firmly equated in fiction back in those times (and still today.) But unfortunately that’s how you’re supposed to figure out how characters in fiction feel about each other. And are we going to ignore a dead man’s last words. Like how could he tell you any more clearly what he thinks of Moriarty. He thinks Moriarty was so awful that he is willing to die to rid the world of him:
Anyway yeah. In the BBC adaptation Sherlock fears Moriarty and hates him but even there you’d have at least slightly more room to argue than in this story the entire purpose of which is that Sherlock Holmes hates Moriarty so much he’d consider his career well spent if he could just rid the world of him.
asked: Can you clear this up? Was Holmes romantically/sexuall interested in Irene in the orginal stories?
Nope, he wasn’t. Fourth line of Scandal in Bohemia, and Watson makes it clear in plain words that Holmes wasn’t in love with her. Then he goes on to explain in rather vivid detail as to why he knew this. Almost as if he wanted to make it incredibly, unquestioningly obvious that Holmes has zero interest in this woman. Or any woman. Yes, Holmes keeps her photograph. But his bedroom is filled with pictures of murderers and thieves and other criminals, yet no one has ever raised a fuss over him being in love withthem. Amusingly enough, throughout Scandal, the only person that Holmes seems to be crushing on (other than Watson, of course) is Adler’sfiance. He describes him as“Dark, handsome, and dashing.”and“He was aremarkably handsome man, dark, aquiline, and moustached.”Who else do we know, in Holmes’ life who fit those descriptions? It appears the Detective has a well defined preference for men with tans and moustaches. You can read the Canon without thinking Holmes and Watson are in love. But it is impossible to read them accurately, and still think that Holmes is straight.
For more reading on this, check outthis essayI’ve written on Scandal in Bohemia, or this…sort of essay thingI’ve written in regards to Holmes and Watson and their relationship.
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thestoutianhereticasked: hey there! so, I'm extremely interested in interpretations of canon Holmes and Watson as women (as you may have construed from my url), and I was told that you know some stuff about Holmesiana—specifically, early Holmesiana— positing that Sherlock Holmes was a woman. I'd never before heard that Holmes being a woman is apparently one of the oldest queer theories in the fandom, and I'd like to learn all about that, if you can provide any sources. Thank you!
Hello!
I think this idea was actually first proposed by Rex Stout in a speech to the Baker Street Irregulars in 1941 arguing that Watson was female. Watson/Holmes-was-a-woman is now mostly an outdated area of Holmesiana - it was essentially early queer theory which has mostly been disregarded now that people feel safer to say “my point is, Holmes and Watson were in love”.
That said, the evidence used to support the theory that Holmes was female is interesting. It’s primarily divided into three categories: physical appearance, identification and relationship with Watson.
Physical appearance:
In chapter 12 of The Hound of the Baskervilles, Watson discovers that Holmes has been hiding out on the moor since he arrived in Dartmoor, yet ‘he had contrived, with that catlike love of personal cleanliness which was one of his characteristics, thathis chin should be as smoothand his linen as perfect as if he were in Baker Street.’
Identification:
Both Holmes and Watson describe men with very romanticised language, yet while Watson distances himself from implications of attraction* by adding phrases such as ‘very well equipped to steal the heart of a countrygirl’ and ‘which might easily hold an irresistible fascination forwomen’, Holmes does nothing of the sort. He does, however, add phrases such as ‘a face that a man might die for’ and ‘no young man would cross her path unscathed’ to his descriptions of beautiful women - he distances himself from implications of attraction by insinuating that he is not a man.
*Remember that homosexuality was a criminal offence when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was writing, and the homoerotic undertones in Oscar Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray were used against Oscar Wilde when he appeared in court against the Marquess of Queensberry - a trial which resulted in him being sentenced in two years of hard labour for gross indecency. Contradicting the Watson/Holmes-was-a-woman theory, this is another event of interest in queer Holmesiana - in The Adventure of the Three Students, which coincides with Wilde’s trial, popularly regarded to mark one of the most dangerous times to be a queer man in London, Watson writes that ‘It was in the year ‘95 that a combination of events, into which I need not enter, caused Mr. Sherlock Holmes and myself to spend some weeks in one of our great university towns’.
Relationship with Watson:
The romantic and erotic undertones in Holmes and Watson’s relationship has been written on many times in much depth, so rather than attempting to summarise that here,here’s a comprehensive reading list on the subject. I’ll also direct you to myACD Holmes tag. As I said, though, now that people are much freer to say “these were two men in love”, the woman theory has mostly fallen away from this subject.
A Reading List for Holmes and Watson Romance/Relationship Topic pre BBC Sherlock
Obviously, there is little written evidence of the Holmes and Watson romance school of thought until the 1940’s. However oral history has passed on that the idea of Holmes and Watson as a couple was suspected but not talked about openly since the characters inception. I can only bare witness to this oral history as it came to me from my Dad and his partner, who spoke of literary discussions in London ‘queer’ pubs on the subject.They were both young men in the 1950‘s but spoke to other men at these meetings, who were elderly and who had been fans since the publication of the works. There could be no documentation of these meetings due to the laws and stigma in existence at the time. Maybe one day we will discover a manuscript or notes on this speculation and discussion. I have included some works in the list that show the literary and social background in which Doyle wrote his stories.
Therefore the first person to give voice to a romantic relationship between Holmes and Watson was Rex Stout’s 1944 presentation; a tongue in cheek analogy to show the romance but having to gender swap Watson to make it palatable for the era. {Things may not have changed very much; hello Elementary] I included a few Baker Street Journal articles [BSJ] with the date of publication, plus the wonderful nekosmuse’s ‘Decoding the Subtext’ as it is the companion when reading the canon and looking for evidence of a romance within the subtext.
Please feel free to send me names of any other books you feel should be on this list.
Non-Fiction
Victorian [background and ethos]
Men at Work: From Heroic Friendship to Male Romance - Stephen Arata
A Man’s Place: Masculinity & the Middle Class Home - John Tosh
Sexual Heretics: Male Homosexuality in English Literature - Brian Reade
Web page With Love, SH - Decoding the subtext - www.nekosmuse.com
Did Sherlock Holmes Kill CAS? BSJ 3/82 - Bruce Harris
Most Unromantic: Most Sexy Too BSJ 3/82 - Christopher Redmond.
Baker St and Beyond - Lord Donegall
In Bed with Sherlock Holmes - Christopher Redmond
Sherlock the Man and His Word - HRF Keating
Strangers: Homosexual Love in the Nineteenth Century - Graham Robb
Naked is the Best Disguise - Samuel Rosenberg
The Gay Book of Days (Jan 6th) - Martin Greif
Sherlock Holmes and Philosophy - Sawyer J. Lahr
Fiction.
My Dearest Holmes - Rohase Piercy
My Dear Watson - L.A. Fields
A Study in Lavender - Joseph R.G. DeMarco
The Sexual Adventures of Sherlock Holmes - Larry Townsend
Kissing Sherlock Holmes - T. D. McKinney, Terry Wylis.
Plus various fanzine stories from the 1980/90 period. Mainly based on Granada Holmes.
Updated.
After a rather frustrating experience I had on a panel a few months ago, I’ve been putting together an essay on this topic. This is INCREDIBLY helpful. Thanks!
I’d like to add to the list of fiction: Kissing Sherlock Holmes - T. D. McKinney, Terry Wylis.
Done. Thanks moranion.
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Anonymousasked: I think everyone needs to talk more about how in love ACD/Granda Holmes and Watson are. I mean, for a time when it was illegal, they were quite obvious about it.... (Don't even get me started on The Dying Detective or The Three Garidebs)
The Post Return stories are the most romantic things I’ve ever read. I like to think of them as the second honeymoon stories. Before the Final Problem, the stories were a lot more carefully written. Aside from ridiculously obscene descriptions about Sticky Spearheads, and Holmes’ O face, you had to pick deeper for the coding. After the Return, though? Watson crammed as much romantic imagery into each description as possible. And the events were far more romantic. Holidays on the Cornish Coast, sharing a small seaside cottage for example.
And of course, the most flashing, big arrows pointing ‘code’ in the entire series (A series which includes private couches in bathhouses, a lot of time spent in France, and…. It includes The Blanched Soldier for crying out loud.) is the opening of The Three Students:
It was in the year ‘95 that a combination of events, into which I need not enter, caused Mr. Sherlock Holmes and myself to spend some weeks in one of our great university towns
This is it. This is my favourite piece of evidence pointing to a romantic, sexual relationship between Holmes and Watson. The Three Students takes place at the beginning of April, in 1895. Our great detective and his constant companion are not out of London for a case, and Holmes is rather irritated at not being there. The pair are staying away long enough that they need to rent furnished rooms, rather than staying in a hotel, and judging by the fact that Holmes has none of his own equipment or books with him, they had to pack in a hurry. Almost as if they were fleeing London.
What combination of events would have taken place at the beginning of April, in 1895, so well known to all of London that Watson feels he doesn’t need to remind his readers of what it was? That had queer men running from London for their own safety?
Like, seriously. I sincerely recommend that Johnlockers read NekosMuse’s Decoding the Subtext. Every last entry stands as more and more strong evidence that John and Sherlock were always gayer than people overtly noticed. If the writers are approaching the Holmes canon from this angle—and genuinely looks like they are—they’re actually being loyal to ACD in a way that all other adaptions have failed, in the way that they utilize the cases as a way tosupport the subtextual messages, and use particular phrases to draw attention to the fact that the readers/viewers should be paying attention to the little details. I mean, the relationship NekosMuse is reading out of the subtext of the canon stories ispreciselythat portrayed by the BBC’s John and Sherlock. I mean, to the point where it being a coincidence is completely absurd. The writers of this show are geniuses. The writers of this show aregeniuses. This show is the most brilliant thing ever written.
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